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Monday, April 24, 2006

Crunch Time

Posted by DavidNYC

Sorry about the slow posting - I'm in my last week of law school classes, ever! While I consider that to be excellent good news, it also means that it's final exam crunch time. I'll try to toss up some updates now and again, but you'll have to forgive me in advance for any paucity in posting over the next few weeks.

For now, please feel free to chatter away about anything and everything in this thread.

Posted at 03:17 PM in Site News | Technorati

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Comments

Oh, please. Like these grades matter. I got my worst grade in all of law school during the last quarter of my third year.

Just pass the Bar. The rest is irrelevant.

Posted by: Adam B at April 24, 2006 03:45 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Any advice for someone who is just starting out law school this fall?

Posted by: New Balancer at April 24, 2006 04:21 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

NB:

Keep up on the reading. You can pass if you simply memorize the information, but in order to do well, you have to internalize it. But, if you feel that you haven't kept up (which always happens) listen to the tapes that can be purchased at the campus book store. My GPA would have been a half grade higher had I discovered this my 1-L year. They are expensive (about $50 a set), but they are worth ten times their price. If your interested in joining a firm, then each A is worth it's weight in gold.

I have to disagree with Adam. I went to a top-tier law school, but my grades were marginal, so I would be limited if I chose to join a firm (I work in the non-profit sector). True, most 3L's joining firms already have offers, but if you decide to change firms, then you will have to submit a transcript. Grades are the most important thing about finding employment in the private sector. It is just assumed that you'll pass the bar.

Posted by: mullymt at April 24, 2006 04:51 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Study hard David! I am in my last week of classes at BC law myself. Here is to the class of 2006!

Posted by: PatrickDriscoll at April 24, 2006 05:47 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Also, for clerkships, judges look at your transcript.

Posted by: DavidNYC at April 24, 2006 05:54 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Congrats. on finishing law school! What law school is it? After undergrad I would like to go to law school myself. Getting in to law school has become VERY competitive. Any law graduates or law school students have any advice on how to get into law school?

Posted by: UVA08 at April 24, 2006 05:56 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

UVA:

Apply in Jan. or Feb. DO NOT wait until the deadline to apply. Most law schools have rolling admissions, so if you wait until then, there won't be as many spots available for 'on the line' candidates. You'll end up waitlisted, and that is not a fun place to be, especially if you have your heart set on a certain school.

Posted by: mullymt at April 24, 2006 06:51 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Quick advice: For most people, it comes down to grades & LSATs. If your undergrad grades are good, you're lucky. If not, try your hardest to bring them up before you graduate. If you don't have four years of good grades, grad schools at least like to see a noticeable improvement over time.

LSATs: Huger than you can imagine. If you have weak grades, they can make all the difference. This is one test where, for most people, a lot of practice really can make a difference. The LSAT doesn't require specific knowledge - it requires you to know HOW to do certain tasks. If you have great self-discipline, buy some books and just keep practicing. If you DON'T (ie, like me), take a course. It's expensive but worth it. I recommend Princeton Review because they keep class sizes small. (Kaplan classes can be huge.)

As I say, many if not most people rise and fall on grades and LSATs. The other major consideration, though, is post-college experience. Business schools pretty much admit no one with less than two years of work experience, and I think law schools are DEFINITELY trending in this direction more and more.

There are lots of reasons to take time off before law school: It's much harder to do so after law school; you want to earn some money; you're just sick of schoolwork; you actually want the experience. I think it almost always makes you a stronger candidate.

I also think it better prepares you for law school. In my experience, the people who had taken time off were better-adjusted, more relaxed, and FAR better prepared for interviewing. If you haven't held anything but college-y summer jobs, what will you talk about with some 50-year-old law firm partner when interview season comes around?

Students who came straight from undergrad did seem to have an advantage when it comes to schoolwork - when you've taken two or three (or more) years off, it's hard to get back into the swing of things. But I don't think that minimal advantage outweighs the pluses of working before law school.

Posted by: DavidNYC at April 24, 2006 07:56 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

I graduated the Univ of Arizona in 2004. Grades and LSAT are key, but you need to have something interesting in your background that separates you. Remember, many people will have impressive grades and LSATs. There are thousands of pampered rich boys that have done nothing with their lives but go to school and excel. You gotta have something else.

I got in probably because I had been active in a lot of charities and ran some campaigns and had worked a few years after undergrad. It's harder to get in if you go straight from undergrad. You seem to get "points" if you've actually worked in the real world.

Posted by: boyblue at April 24, 2006 10:09 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Hm. I'm an undergrad right now (just finished my third year), and I just want to jump into it (law school) right away. Do you think three years of summer work doing marketing/communications at a government-run (read: bureaucratic) museum counts for much?

Posted by: HellofaSandwich at April 25, 2006 12:21 AM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

David, but by the time you're ending your 3L year, clerkships are set -- even under the new, later schedule.

Getting into law school: if you can, hire my friend. Beyond that, it's pretty simple: undergrad institution + grades + LSAT + recs + diversity. And if you aren't admitted to a good-enough school, don't go. You're better off waiting a few years and improving your resume, then trying again.

Succeeding in law school: I part from David here; I thought older students did better, because they were more efficient allocators of time. They treated school like work, and it is - - you need to be constantly disciplined, and especially for your first year, it *is* your life. Read everything; take advantage of professors' office hours; push yourself to the limit.

Hellofa: Not really, unless you can show some amount of leadership and initiative. But hell, I was a counselor at a summer program for 12-16 y.o. nerds after my junior and senior years of college, and I ended up going to a top-five school.

Posted by: Adam B at April 25, 2006 10:44 AM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Almost forgot: Anna also has a book, which runs much cheaper than her hourly rate.

Posted by: Adam B at April 25, 2006 10:46 AM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

A friend recommended Anna Ivey's book and it is REALLY helpful, unlike the cliche advice Princeton Review and Kaplan give about the admissions process at law schools.

Posted by: Ferris at April 25, 2006 12:02 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

Adam: Not quite so for clerkships. More and more, people are applying for clerkships after they graduate. Sort of like law schools, judges are showing more interest in people who have actual experience. That's what I plan on doing, for instance. So that means all three years of my law school grades will be available for judges to see.

Posted by: DavidNYC at April 25, 2006 12:57 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

How much does the prestige of your undergraduate school count? I go to the University of Virginia and from what my other friends at other schools tell me, I do A LOT more reading, writing, and other work than they are assigned. Also how much does my major matter?

Posted by: UVA08 at April 25, 2006 04:48 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment

I think undergrad can make a difference. If you have a lower GPA but attended a prestigious (theoretically "harder") school, that might balance things out a bit.

As far as major goes, near as I can tell, schools strive for a balanced mix. You've got your Englishes, Histories, Engineergings, etc. I would guess - but this is just a guess - that more humanities types apply than science types. If I'm right that schools strive for a mix, and if I'm right that more humanities majors apply to law school, then you might get a leg up if you are a science major. But ultimately, I doubt it makes much of a difference. Grades must surely count 10 times as much, if not more.

Posted by: DavidNYC at April 25, 2006 06:00 PM | Permalink | Edit Comment | Delete Comment