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Who Replaces Biden?

by: Crisitunity

Tue Nov 11, 2008 at 2:42 PM EST


Say it ain't so, Joe! You're leaving us after only... uh... 36 years? Biden's departure from the Senate leaves some pretty big shoes to fill, and while filling Obama's Senate seat has been a hot topic of discussion here at SSP for the last week (and even Rahm Emanuel's seat, for that matter), we haven't talked about the situation in Delaware much.

There may, at this point, be more uncertainty about who gets to pick the replacement than who gets picked... which is odd, because it's quite certain that Jack Markell will take over from Ruth Ann Minner as governor. Here's the problem, according to ABC's Political Radar:

Just prior to Tuesday's election, Biden told a local television station that he does not want to resign his Senate seat until the moment he were to become vice president.

Delaware has not determined the time of its Jan. 20, 2009 gubernatorial nomination. But Gov. Minner's office tells ABC News that the decision is traditionally made by the incoming governor.

So, who gets to replace Biden depends on when Jack Markell decides he wants to have his own inauguration ceremony on the 20th. If it's before the presidential inauguration (and if Biden gets his wish of remaining in office until the moment of becoming Veep), Markell will get to appoint the replacement. (The tea leaves seem to indicate this will happen, as the ABC story cites Markell's spokesperson as citing Gov. Pierre DuPont IV's 12:01 am swearing-in in 1989 as precedent for doing it early in the day.)

Who, then, does Markell (or Minner) appoint? One obvious possibility is Minner herself, but Minner is 73 and has indicated that she is not interested in the job.

The most talked-about option seems to be Beau Biden, the Delaware Attorney General who also just happens to also be Joe Biden's son. There's one problem: Beau Biden is a member of the military, and is currently training prior to a one-year deployment to Iraq (as a lawyer, not as a front-line soldier). Military law (as well as his inability to be present for votes) would prevent him from serving in the Senate during his deployment, which makes his appointment right now impossible or at least ineffective. In addition, Biden Jr. has seemed leery of appointment in the past, perhaps unwilling to get tarred with the brush of nepotism; in 2005, Minner offered him the Attorney General post when it was vacant, but he chose to wait until 2006 to run for it and win it.

As a result, the possibility of a placeholder occupying the seat for two years, with the understanding that Biden Jr. would run for it in the 2010 special election, seems somewhat likely. Supreme Court Justice Myron Steele, who is close to Minner, is often mentioned in that context (although it's possible Minner herself could keep the seat warm for two years). Secretary of State Harriet Windsor Smith's name also crops up, at least in the placeholder context.

The other likeliest outcome is the appointment of Lt. Gov. Jack Carney, who lost the Democratic gubernatorial primary to Markell. The possibility of appointing the gubernatorial loser to the Senate seat was occasionally broached during the campaign; Carney, however, made it clear that if appointed to the Senate seat, he would want it to be on a permanent basis, not as a seat-filler for Biden Jr.

Finally, as an out-of-the-box choice, Chris Cillizza says that some Beltway chatter is talking up Obama campaign manager David Plouffe for the job, who grew up and went to college in Delaware.

Regardless of whether the 2010 candidate is Biden or Carney, the 2010 race could turn into a very competitive race if Delaware's popular at-large GOP representative Mike Castle ran for the Senate. At age 69 and in the wake of some health problems, though, that challenge doesn't seem likely.

UPDATE (David): We also discussed Biden's successor in this August post when he was first named to the ticket.

Crisitunity :: Who Replaces Biden?
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Who Replaces Biden? | 40 comments
My feeling is
that it will either be Jack Carney who will seek reelection in 2010 or a senior politician will be appointed to fill out the term and have an open race in 2010.

As for who that senior person might be, I think Minner sounds very logical. A name I haven't heard yet but would find interesting is that of Wilmington mayor James A. Baker. There's a lot of talk regarding Obama's seat whether or not he should be replaced by an African American. Why not do that in Delaware instead?


the only 69 year olds who run for freshman senate terms
are old rich guys who know they can't win.  

being normal is for the mediocre.

Biden is possibly screwing over Delaware
by not resigning immediately. So, frankly, is Obama Illinois.

Rules were changed some time ago about resigning early for office space and seniority purposes, but I don't know exactly what the new rules say. And it will hurt to be at the back of the line, especially for Delaware.  


I would assume
obama and biden will resign before the end of the year.

Obama anyway  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens


[ Parent ]
It's Delaware that's really getting screwed
No offense to Obama, but he really only had 4 years of senority in the Senate, and the other Senator is Dick Durbin, the guy who will probably replace Reid as Majority Leader if/when he gives up his position, so it's not like Illinois has lost 36 years of senority like Delaware is.

Your go-to source for great sarcasm

[ Parent ]
Neither state is getting screwed
In reality, both states are gaining, not getting screwed -- having the Pres or VP from your state is usually a pretty good way to make sure your issues get a fair hearing -- and any resulting lack of Senate clout of a few weeks advance appointment is much more than made up for by the ability of the executive branch to weigh in with Senators from the rest of the country.

As you note, the caucus has gotten rid of the gaming of the seniority system by folks resigning early and then having their replacement get named for the last few weeks of their terms... anyone named to a Senate seat between the election and swearing in is considered to have the same seniority as those elected in November and sworn in at the normal time. So neither state would gain advantage in terms of seniority (or office space, or committees, etc) by either Obama or Biden stepping down early.

If I were from either state, I'd be pretty damn happy with the situation.



[ Parent ]
If Biden holds to his plan to not
"resign his Senate seat until the moment he were to become vice president", then his appointed successor does get screwed, won't he/she?
They'd be sworn in at least a couple weeks after all the other freshmen, and therefore have less seniority, wouldn't they?

[ Parent ]
Wouldn't matter, generally.
Seniority of people sworn in on the same day is determined by a couple of different factors, so it kind of depends on who the choices are.  In the case of Delaware, neither Carney nor Beau (who isn't an option) nor any of the suggested placeholders hold any office that would trip the early alarm (former senator/congressman/governor), so they'd be ranked based on Delaware's population, which is near the bottom.

It's more complicated in the case of Illinois; unless it was one of the Congressmen (higher still), they'd likewise be ordered based on Illinois's population (which is higher on the list, of course).


[ Parent ]
If the governor appoints immediately
The new Senator from Delaware will be considered part of the class of 2009 and will have the same seniority as other new Senators (Hagan, the Udalls, etc).

Since Biden's resignation won't be a surprise, the Governor can have all of the paperwork ready and the appointment could happen the very minute of the resignation. Even though this is a couple weeks after the other new Senators are sworn in, my understanding of caucus rules is that they would be treated the same as the other new Senators.  (Unless things have changed in the last couple of years since I worked in DC - but a quick check with a friend who knows Senate rules really well says they don't think they have.)


[ Parent ]
Wait, am I missing something?
I would think Biden remaining as Senator would be beneficial to the people of Delaware. He gets to remain a leader during the lame duck session and then his successor comes in with all the other Freshmen.

[ Parent ]
well, the freshman Senators just elected right now
are at the start of a 2 month period to: interview & hire staff, having the best people to select from while they're still available to hire, setting up office, start getting up to speed on the esoteric workings and rules of the Senate, lobby for the committee assignments they'd perfer, find housing in DC, basic family issues such as packing the kids up and moving to DC or not, Etc, Etc

I'd assume that being named to the job in late December or in January does put you 2 months behind on those human issues and factors, and the ability to "hit the ground running"


[ Parent ]
Isn't that problem
More because of Markell and Miner than Biden since they can't seem to decide who gets to make this appointment that just makes it more complicated. But if Miner gets to make this appointment, she could theoretically announce a replacement tomorrow. And while they couldn't take office for a couple months they could start doing all those things that you suggested.

[ Parent ]
Hope its Carney
I was for Markell in the primary. The fact almost 95% of the Democratic Party was behindCarney for Govenor was a little crazy (the state party even endorsed him). They would have just appointed him if they could, and Minner has been a disaster for DE. So Carney being Lt. Gov under her did not help him.

That said, Carney is the best for the Senate. He's a good guy and is pretty liberal and union friendly. While I didn't support him for governor, it wasn't because of him or his policies really. I do not think Beau is appropriate. It reeks of nepotism, and he is not a very good retail politician, which DE loves.


why does
everyone in Delaware not seem to like Minner much. She barely managed to win statewide, twice, against the same unknown Republican. Carper and Markell won overhwelmingly. I don't like Markell or Carney, they're both DLC-type Democrats.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
The last approval I saw
Rasmussen's last approval on her a couple months back had her at like 20-something percent.  It takes a lot of work for a Dem Governor to be that hated in a blue state.

[ Parent ]
what did she do though?
she's a pretty moderate old grandma like figure.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Not entirely sure
I believe someone posted awhile back that the state had major transportation issues that she did not deal with effectively.  That might be part of it.

[ Parent ]
What did she do? Good question.
The problem is that the answer is "pretty close to nothing at all." I'm personally grateful for the smoking ban, but other than that, she has done next to nothing in the 3 and a half years I've lived here.

That being said, I am 100% for John Carney being appointed to the Senate. I've met him -- pretty much everyone in Delaware is on a first name basis with our elected officials, that's how small the state is -- and he's a great guy who can rally Democratic support.

I like Beau, but let him earn his shot by finishing out his term as AG and running for Mike Castle's seat when he retires.

Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!


[ Parent ]
Minner
Exactly.

Minner has not done much. I agree that the best thing in 8 years was the smoking ban. I never met her, but I've met almost every other Democratic leader (Carper even remembers me every time). The state budget is in trouble and she constantly screws state employees (ie me). She was OK her first term, but this second term has accomplished nothing at all. She needs to fire every person at DelDOT, they are the most incompetent government workers I have ever seen. Yet, DelDOT's budget increases every year. They can't finish anything even remotely close to on-time on on-budget. Having someone slightly outside the party (Markell) will hopefully change some things.  


[ Parent ]
Placeholder My Ass
I respect Biden a lot for his honesty and policy depth, but I don't believe in any entitlements for family members at this high level. I really don't agree with this placeholder garbage with Carney and waiting until Beau comes back from Iraq.

Can't they just appoint Beau by absentia or something until he returns?


Screw that
Beau can wait his turn.  Appoint Carney to the seat and let him keep it and build up seniority.  Mike Castle won't stay in the minority much longer.  I'm waiting for him to retire then Beau Biden can win the seat in the House and serve a few terms until Tom Carper retires, which I see as potentially 2012, but more likely 2018.  Biden spends 6-8 years in the House then moves up to the Senate where he no doubt remains forever like his dad.

Markell?
It seems pretty wrong that Markell wins the primary but Carney gets the big prize.  Nobody is saying it but can Markell appoint himself?

Delaware governors in the recent past have moved on to both the Senate (Carper) and the House (Castle).  Carney by losing moves up two steps and Markell is locked out of the parade.

Incidentally, is there a national list of the ages of Senators and House members (or date of birth)?  Individual lookups aren't bad but mass lookups are time consuming.

The oldest Republican representing the Northeast is Roscoe Bartlett of MD-6, at age 82.  Castle and Joe Pitts of PA-16 are both 69.  Next comes Peter King (64), Frank LoBiondo and Rodney Frelinghuysen (both 62) and John McHugh (60).  Age doesn't neccessarily equate with retirement (look at Mike Ferguson) but it could be associated.  We might have more luck knocking off Bartlett now than waiting for a more vigorous Republican.  The district is an umpromising R+13 but he isn't loaded with cash and is coming off a lackluster performance against Jennifer Dougherty.


Bartlett's district
is just too Republican though. Its several points to the right of MD-01 where a perfect storm of conditions and an unusually strong and able candidate with a strong base geographically, was just barely able to win. Hopefully in 2012 Ruppersburg can absorb some of the conservative northern suburbs while giving some of his most Democratic outer territory, and abosorbing some heavily black precincts of Baltimore to keep his district's Democratic performance steady.

At the same time Anne Arundel County could be moved into Gilchrest's district, while John Sarbanes district could absorb Hartford. That would make the district at least somewhat tennable, though it would spread Democrats out a little on the far side.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus


[ Parent ]
MD redistricting
It seems to me that the best way to redistrict (gerrymander) Maryland post 2010 census has to be to try to make 1 heavily Republican district and 7 fairly safe Democratic ones. It would be too much of stretch to attempt to create 8 safe Dem districts in the state, so packing the heavily Republican areas together in a district that takes in Republican parts of the 6th and 1st would be our best defense.

The Republican voting concentrations in the state are kind of spread out -- the exurbs of Baltimore in Carroll County and parts of Harford, Howard and Baltimore Counties, rural parts of western Maryland, some suburbs in Anne Arundel, and the rural eastern shore.

Assuming Kravotil manages to get re-elected in 2010 (that won't necessarily be easy), it will be very important to change the 1st district to make it more Dem friendly.

The best way to do that might be to build a Republican district that includes a lot of Harford, northern Baltimore County burbs, all of Carroll, maybe some of rural Howard,  and moving west to pick up parts of northern Frederick County, most of Wash Co, and Alleghany and Garrett. (Obviously census details would determine the exact boundaries)

The 1st district could then consist of the eastern shore pick up more Democratic parts of Anne Arundel and other parts of the western shore.

The 8th (Van Hollen) could expand westward to pick up a good part of the increasingly Democratic and rapidly growing areas around Frederick.

In the meantime, this might allow the opportunity to smooth out a lot of the crazy spider leg aspects of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th districts.

Crazy old Roscoe Bartlett might be taken out in a Republican primary in such  new district.

Under the current boundaries of the 6th , perhaps the right candidate could take advantage of the growth in Frederick and the historically Democratic nature of Washington and Alleghany counties could beat Bartlett, but the only way to make the 6th more safely democratic would be to get rid of the districts parts of Carroll, Baltimore and Harford counties and expand into more Democratic areas in Montgomery County, around Columbia in Howard County, or Democratic areas of western Baltimore County.



[ Parent ]
What kind of PVIs and demographics are we talking about
Would these districts have high enough PVIs and levels of ancestral dyed-in-the-wool Democratic voters to survive a swing back towards the Republicans?

Because if we're talking about a Florida plan here, it might be better just to settle for six dead safe seats, one toss-up and one Republican one.

Especially since most Maryland congresscritters aren't used to having to win competitive generals.


[ Parent ]
Bartlett
is one of the most moderate Republicans though.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
I'd call him eccentric, not moderate
He's more in the Ron Paulish, Libertarian ideological league than in the traditional moderate, north eastern Republican moderate.

That means that sometimes he is with us on some civil liberties issues, some foreign policy issues, etc.

But he is not a moderate in the sense of civil rights, environment, labour, economics etc.



[ Parent ]
better yet
for redistricting, move the district around to take in Anne Arundel count and the southern portion of Steny Hoyer's district, and have him make it up by gaining more of fast growing, hevily Democratic Prince George's county.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
No way on markell
1st of all, Markell wanted to be Governor, so I hope he's happy to win the job.  And in most states - there is only one governor and they get to live near their homes, call the shots and BE the big cheese in the state, not junior senators.

2nd, it is political suicide not just for oneself, but for one's entire state party to appoint oneself Senator (please see Governor Wendell Anderson the Governor of MN who appointed himself to fill Walter Mondale's seat in '76 and in doing so demolished the entire party in 1978 - we lost the Gov and both Senate seats).

DE Govs have moved to the Senate (Carper) and house (Castle), but they did it by winning an election, not by appointing themselves and there is no comparison.

Carney seems like a smart choice.  Placeholders don't make sense.  Senate seats are too expensive and too valuable to open them up when we don't have to.


[ Parent ]
Anyone except Beau Biden
That would be sick.  We don't have Kings here for a reason.  36 years is plenty for one family to have a seat.  Annointing the son is creepy, ugly nepotism.  Let him run if he wants it.

well somebody can try to beat him
I don't agree with discounting him holding a seat just because his father/family held it, especially if its against someone less capable.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Then discount him
for being out of the country and unable to serve.  nepotism is not progressive, or good politics even.  There are plenty of able people in Delaware.

[ Parent ]
You realize that he is Attorney General, right?
He isn't some nobody in DE. That being said, there are others who are more qualified and in the country. But who says that he even wanted to be appointed? I've seen no indication of that at all.

[ Parent ]
Only about fifty news stories
C'mon.  He is the name usually mentioned in news stories.  And no one said he was a "nobody".  He is however not a good choice under the circumstances.

[ Parent ]
So?
Lisa Murkowski was a state legislator in Alaska and everyone slammed her dad for appointing her to his Senate seat.


Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
that's more because it was her dad
if a regular politician, or non-related person appointed her to succeed her father if had suddenly died, people would not have been that upset.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
John Carney
He can hold the seat, no problem, and he's probably about as liberal a Dem as you can get statewide in Delaware.

If Beau Biden wants to run for higher office, he should earn it on his own merits. He has enough of advantage already having the last name.


My thoughts
The most democratic thing to do would be to appoint a placeholder and then let Biden Jr (actually III) and Carney face off in the 2010 primary, if they each want the job (which seems likely).  Gives the voters a real chance to decide who they want in the seat for the next few decades (whereas, if Carney or whoever was the incumbent, he'd have an all but insurmountable advantage).

I agree
I generally like this idea.  Incumbency is entirely too powerful to let a governor decide that awesome power, it should be left up to voters.

[ Parent ]
Any African-American names being floated in Delaware?
A lot of focus has been put on Obama's replacement in IL to deal with the lack of African-Americans in the Senate... what are the possibilities of a black Senator being named from Delaware?  Even if Blago names an African-American to replace Obama, surely it wouldn't be a bad thing to make history by having two black US Senators at the same time.

I'm sure there are prominent black elected officials in New Castle County and the legislature. Are any of them viewed as potential Senate names?



Who Replaces Biden? | 40 comments

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